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Van mreže AA

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Ishrana celim plenom - Prey model RAW
« poslato: 19 April, 2012, 14:03:02 »
Ishrana celim plenom je nacin ishrane pasa po uzoru na vukove, koji su najblizi rodjaci pasa i koji su se oduvek hranili celim ulovljenim zivotinjama.
Filozofija hranjenja pasa ovim nacinom proistekla je iz cinjenice da se pas po svojoj fiziologiji i anatomiji ni u cemu ne razlikuje od vuka, te da je najprirodnija ishrana za njega iskljucivo sveze zivotinjsko meso, u vidu celog plena (cele zivotinje) bez ikakvih dodataka, posto razliciti delovi zivotinje obezbedjuju psu sve sto je potrebno.


Svaki plen se sastoji od kostiju, organa, misica, koze, krzna ili perja i vezivnih tkiva.



U prosecnom plenu, odnos ovih delova je oko:


5-10% organi (1/2 ovog iznosa je jetra)
10-15% kosti
80-85% misicno tkivo




Posmatrajuci psecu celjust, koja se ne razlikuje od celjusti Sivog vuka, vidimo da su zubi struktuirani za ishranu zivotinjskim mesom.
Psi i mačke imaju snazne misice vilice kao i vratne misice koji pomažu u rušenju plena. Siljasti ocnjaci su tu da iskidaju plen, a ostali zubi su za žvakanje mesa i kostiju. Njihove vilice se široko otvaraju, omogućavajući im da otkinu, zdrobe i progutaju velike komade mesa i kostiju. Njihove lobanje su teske, i bez mogucnosti pomeranja donje vilice levo i desno, sto nam govori da su stvoreni za kidanje i drobljenje plena. Sa druge strane, biljojedi imaju ravnu celjust koja omogućava bočno kretanja vilice neophodno za mlevenje biljnih vlakana.

LOBANJA SIVOG VUKA





LOBANJA PSA (NEMACKI OVCAR)



Posmatrajuci dalju anatomiju pasa, njihov digestivni trakt je oformljen za ishranu mesom.  Dig. trakt im je veoma kratak i jednostavan, za razliku od dig, trakta biljojeda. Meso i kosti se u njemu, uz pomoc stomacnih enzima lako vare.
Biljojedi imaju veoma složen i dug digest. trakt. Biljke, koje su pune vlakana moraju se fermentirati dugo vremena, pa je zbog toga dig. trakt biljojeda puno duzi i kompleksniji. Naravno, i biljojedi sadrze stomacne kiseline, ali njihove kiseline su za razlaganje vlakana i drugacije su od onih u mesojeda. I uz to, biljojedi moraju jesti mnogo vece kolicine hrane jer ni oni ne iskoriste sve sto pojedu.


Dig. trakt u pasa veoma efikasno vari velike kolicine mesa i kostiju, cak 95% sirovog mesa se iskoristi u roku od 2 do 3 sata.
Nakon takvih namirnica, postoji veoma malo otpada (vidljivo u stolici).  Veoma jake zeludacne kiseline dosta brzo razlazu meso i kosti, pa zato i nema potrebe za komplikovanim digest. sistemom.
Psi imaju veoma elastican stomak napravljen da zadrži velike količine mesa, kostiju i organa. Njihovi stomaci su jednostavni, sa nerazvijenim slepim crevom .


Ovo su ukratko razlozi za odbacivanje svakog drugog vida ishrane pasa osim ishrane cisim mesom i kostima.
Zagovornici ove teorije tvrde i da vuk u divljini nikada ne jede zeludac plena, vec samo organe, meso i kosti, dok sa druge strane postoje jednaki dokazi da vuk upravo prvo sto pojede jeste zeludac plena, zeludac biljojeda, koji je pun polusvarenih biljaka, te na taj nacin i vuk dobije "polupripremljen" vitaminski proizvod koji lako svari.


Zanimljiva tema, sigurna sam da ce biti dosta komentara

Van mreže BlackKan

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Odg: Ishrana celim plenom - Prey model RAW
« Odgovor #1 poslato: 19 April, 2012, 14:17:35 »
ishrana celim plenom moze recimo izgledati ovako







PS.da ne bude zabune,nije moj pas,slike su s interneta NO Astor


 


NO Nexe


 

NO Cross



Van mreže AA

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Odg: Ishrana celim plenom - Prey model RAW
« Odgovor #2 poslato: 19 April, 2012, 14:24:37 »
zaista sam mislila da je to Kan... da...to upravo tako izgleda  :nod:

Van mreže BlackKan

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Odg: Ishrana celim plenom - Prey model RAW
« Odgovor #3 poslato: 19 April, 2012, 16:46:49 »
А evo nam i jednog labradora u akciji  sm smesko2

 

kao i jos jedan primer -  sirovom zecetinom

 
 

Van mreže Filth

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Odg: Ishrana celim plenom - Prey model RAW
« Odgovor #4 poslato: 19 April, 2012, 17:12:18 »
zaista sam mislila da je to Kan... da...to upravo tako izgleda  :nod:

Kan ima sjajniju dlaku..1 sm prst gore

Van mreže BlackKan

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Odg: Ishrana celim plenom - Prey model RAW
« Odgovor #5 poslato: 19 April, 2012, 17:37:09 »
 :D Nikola,ma svaka ti je zlatna  :worth:

Van mreže AA

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Odg: Ishrana celim plenom - Prey model RAW
« Odgovor #6 poslato: 30 April, 2012, 13:03:34 »
sajt na engleskom posvecen ovoj vrsti prehrane
http://www.thewholedog.org/artcarnivores.html

Psi su karnivori

By Dr Jeanette (Jeannie) Thomason


Photos courtesy of National Geographic and Astrid Beutler, Thuringia in Germany




Danas mnogi vlasnici pasa tretiraju svoje pse kao da su ljudi. I ja volim svoje pse celim svojim srcem kao da su u pitanju moja deca, međutim moramo imati na umu da oni nisu ljudi. Oni ne razmišljaju kao ljudi niti se hrane kao ljudi. Bog je stvorio pse kao mesoždere da bi pomogao održavanje ravnoteže u prirodi.

Pretpostavka da su psi omnivori tek treba da se dokaže, dok je istina o tome da su psi prirodni mesožderi veoma dobro podržana brojnim dokazima koji su nam dostupni.
 
Počnimo od usta.

Kao i ljudi i psi imaju dve grupe zuba. 28 bejbi zuba izbija kroz desni između treće i šeste nedelje starosti. Šteneći kutnjaci. Šteneći zubi se menjaju i zamenjuju trajnim zubima sa oko 4 meseca starosti. Iako postoje neke varijacije zavisno od rase, većina odraslih pasa ima 42 zuba, pri čemu pretkutnjaci dolaze poslednji, sa oko šest ili sedam meseci starosti.

Kao što možete videti u ustima vašeg psa, primetićete ogromne impresivne zube (ili sićušne oštre zube). Oni su dizajnirani za hvatanje, kidanje, cepanje i sečenje mesa. Oni nemaju velike ravne kutnjake za mlevenje biljaka.  Njihovi kutnjaci su postavljeni tako da prave makazasti zagriz (sa ostatkom zuba) zahvaljujući kojem snažno drobe kosti, meso i kožu. Mesožderi su opremljeni posebnim setom zuba koji uključuje prisustvo zuba koji se nazivaju koljači (carnassial teeth): četvrti gornji pretkutnjak i prvi donji kutnjak. Zbog toga psi ne žvaću hranu, oni grizu, kidaju, seku, lome i gutaju hranu.

Očnjaci  služe za grabljenje i ubijanje, sekutići za grickanje, pretkutnjaci za kidanje i kutnjaci za drobljenje (ne za žvakanje) kostiju. Iako su naši slatki, porodični psi možda mnogo civilizovaniji nego njihovi divlji rođaci, oni i dalje imaju potpuno iste zube koji im služe za ishranu i odbranu kao i njihovi divlji rođaci.

Četiri pretkutnjaka se nalaze sa svake strane donje i gornje vilice odmah iza očnjaka. To su zubi za kidanje, oni služe za kidanje delova mesa plena tj ulovljene životinje. Iako naši psi više ne love da bi opstali, oni ipak mogu da se hrane na način na koji to čini vuk, tako što će zgrabiti meso pomoću pretkutnjaka i otkinuti ga sa kostiju.

Gornja vilica ima dva kutnjaka sa svake strane, a tri na donjoj vilici. Ovo su zubi za lomljenje, koje vukovi koriste da bi zdrobili kosti srednje veličine kao što su kosti Karibua ili Jelena.

Njihova vilica ima mogućnost da se široko otvori što ima omogućava da progutaju velike komade mesa i kostiju.  Vilica i lobanja mesoždera su dizajnirane tako da neomogućavaju bočno pomeranje donje vilice kada je plen uhvaćen i traje borba , ovaj oblik omogućava samo gore-dole pomeranje(the mandibular fossa is deep and C-shaped), bočno pomeranje je potrebno za ishranu biljkama.
Da, ja naglašavam to “gutanje.” Psi ne žvaću hranu. U divljini, resursi su oskudni, pa su Karnivori napravljeni tako da budu u stanju kako da se prezasite tako i da gladuju u takvom okruzenju. Pas znajuci da ce dobiti 2 obroka dnevno u velikoj meri menja nacin razmisljanja i pristup hrani. Oni mogu da zvacu hranu i ako to rade naprve u 1 ili 2 pomeranja vilice ali je činjenica da nisu dizajnirani za žvakanje. Mnogi ljudi koji su novi u RAW ishrani su uplašeni da bi njihov pas mogao da proguta ceo komad mesa ili kost. Da, oni će najverovatnije baš to i uraditi. Oni će otkinuti velike komade mesa sa kostiju i onda ako je kost mala, recimo kao pileća ili ćureća, oni će zdrobiti sa jednim ili dva pokreta vilice i progutaće. Stomačna kiselina kod psa je mnogo jača nego naša i ona je dizajnirana da vari veće komade mesa pa čak i velike komade RAW kostiju.

Koliko god mi ljudi menjali dizajn tela psa (što dovodi do različitih veličina i konformacija), mi nismo uradili ništa da promenimo  unutrašnju anatomiju i fiziologiju naših pasa. Psi imaju unutrašnju anatomiju i fiziologiju jednog mesoždera!
Oni imaju veoma elastičan stomak koji je dizajniran tako da može da zadrži velike količine mesa, kostiju, organa i kože. Njihovi stomaci su jednostavni,  sa nerazvijenim slepim crevom.
Oni imaju relativno kraći digestivni kanal, kao i kratak, gladak kolon. To znači da hrana kroz stomak prođe brzo. Za povrće i druge biljke međutim treba vremena da ih stomak obradi.  Za to je potreban duzi i razvijeniji kolon, veca i duza tanka creva, kao i prisustvo cekuma.
Psi nemaju ništa od toga. To objašnjava zašto biljke izlaze u istom obliku u kome su i ušle, između ostalog nije bilo vremena da se one razgrade i svare. Obrazovani ljudi ovo znaju, to je razlog zašto govore da je povrće i žitarice potrebno najpre obraditi da bi pas mogao da izvuče bilo šta iz njih. Ali čak i tada, hranjenje mesoždera povrćem i žitaricama je pod velikim znakom pitanja.

Psi ne proizvode neophodne enzime u svojoj pljuvačci (na primer amilaza) koji su im potrebni da bi započeli obradu ugljenih hidrata i skroba, amilaza u pljuvačci je nešto što omnivori i biljojedi poseduju, ali ne i mesožderi.
To breme je na pankreasu, primoravajući ga da proizvodi velike količine amilaze koja će se pozabaviti skrobom, celulozom i ugljenim hidratima u biljnoj materiji. Pankreas mesoždera ne luči enzim celulazu kako bi razgradio celulozu na molekule glukoze, niti su psi postali efikasniji u varenju, asimilaciji i korišćenju biljnog materijala kao izvora visoko kvalitetnih proteina. Biljojedi rade tu vrstu stvari.

Dakle, hranjenje pasa kao da su u pitanju ljudi (biljojedi) opterećuje pankreas i stvara dodatni napor za njega, on mora da radi više da bi pas mogao da vari skrob, ugljene hidrate umesto da samo proizvodi  normalnu količinu enzima  koji su neophodni za varenje proteina i masti (koji u slučaju kada se pas hrani sirovom hranom započinju da se vare čim se započne proces razbijanja structure namirnica u kome se oslobadjaju enzimi).
Naši psi nemaju tu vrstu prijateljskih bakterija koje će razgraditi celulozu i skrob za njih. Kao rezultat toga, većina hranljivih materija koje se nalaze u biljkama (čak i kada su one obrađene) su nedostupne za psa. To je razlog zašto proizvođači hrane za pse moraju da stavljaju tako velike količine sintetičkih vitamina i minerala (činjenica je da kuvanje uništava sve vitamine i minerale i tako stvara potrebu za suplementima) u njihovu hranu za pse. Ako pas može da svari samo 40-60% hrane na bazi žitarica, onda će oni primiti samo 40-60% vitamina i minerala koji su im potrebni. Da pi to nadoknadili proizvođači moraju dodati veću količinu vitamina i minerala nego što je psu u stvari potrebno. Rezultat ishrane pasa visoko prerađenom hranom, hranom baziranom na žitaricama jeste oslabljen imuni sistem  i nedovoljna proizvodnja enzima neophodnih za kompletno varenje sirovog mesa i kostiju.

Psi su fiziološki toliko slični vuku da se često koriste u studijama o vuku kao fiziološki model za izučavanje funkcionisanja vučijeg tela. Pored toga, psi i vukovi dele 99.8% njihove mitohondrijalne DNK. Domaći pas je ekstremno blizak sivom vuku, razlikuju se najviše u 0.2% u DNK nizu….
Psi su nedavno bili prekvalifikovani kao Kanis lupus familiaris od strane Smitsonijan Instituta. Stavljajući ga u istu vrstu kao i sivog vuka, Kanis lupus. Pas je, po svim naučnim standardima i po evolutivnoj istoriji u stvari pripitomljen vuk.

Oni koji insistiraju da psi nisu potekli od vuka moraju opovrgnuti naučne dokaze koji tvrde da su vukovi preci pasa. I kao što smo već utvrdili, vuk je mesožder. Pošto se unutrašnja fiziologija psa ne razlikuje od fiziologije vuka, psi imaju iste fiziološke i nutritivne potrebe kao ti mesožderi predatori, koji da podsetimo, “treba da vare sve glavne delove njihovog plena, osim biljaka koje se nalaze u digestivnom traktu biljojeda” da bi “rastao i razvijao sopstveno telo.”
Neki ljudi smatraju da bakterije iz sirovog mesa mogu da naude njihovim psima. Ako vaš pas ima oslabljen imuni sistem ili neku skrivenu bolest, tada bakterija možda može da izazove neke probleme i tada ovu vrstu ishrane treba uvoditi oprezno i postepeno.

Van mreže Поп

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Odg: Ishrana celim plenom - Prey model RAW
« Odgovor #7 poslato: 30 April, 2012, 13:04:17 »
Nažalost, RAW ishrana je takođe okrivljena za izazivanje bolesti kao što je pankreatitis i bolesti bubrega, a u stvari problem je u već postojećoj prikrivenoj bolesti koja izlazi na videlo promenom ishrane psa. Psi su iznenađujuće dobro opremljeni za borbu protiv bakterija. Njihova pljuvačka ima antibakterijska svojstva, ona sadrži lizozim i enzime koji uništavaju štetne bakterije. Njihov kratak digestivni trakt je dizajniran tako da  hrana i bakterije kroz njega prolaze brzo i zato bakterije nemaju vreman da se kolonizuju. Ekstremno kisela sredina u crevima je takođe dobar vid odbrane od bakterija. Ljudi često ukazuju na činjenicu da izmet njihovih pasa sadrži salmonelu (ali čak i psi hranjeni granulama imaju salmonelu u svom izmetu) a da pri tom psi ne pokazuju bilo kakve simptome zaraženosti salmonelom. Sve ovo dokazuja da salmonela prođe kroz digestivni trakt pasa bez izazivanja bilo kakvih problema. Da, pas može biti nosilac salmonele, ali rešenje je jednosatvno. Nemojte jesti pseći izmet i perite ruke posle čišćenja za vašim psom.

Kao što je pomenuto gore, čak i psi hranjeni granulama (obrađenom komercijalnom hranom) mogu biti i jesu nosioci salmonele i drugih bakterija koje izbacuju u izmetu. Većina dokumentovanih slučajeva bakterijske septikemije jesu primeri od granulama hranjenih pasa ili pasa koji su imali reakciju na vakcine. Komercijalna hrana za pse je bila povučena sa polica  mnogo puta zbog bakterija i plesni koje proizvode smrtonosni otrov. Koje je rešenje ? Koristite zdrav razum! Dobro operite ruke i mislite o svom psu. To je životinja koja liže sama sebe, liže druge pse, jede razne odvratne stvari, jede sopstveni izmet ili izmet drugih životinja bez ikakvih posledica. Pas, prosto i jednostavno, može da se nosi sa većom količinom bakterija nego što smo mi u stanju. Budimo iskreni, zdrav pas neće patiti od bakterijskih infekcija ili bakterijske septikemije. Pas koji pati od trovanja salmonelom očigledno nije zdrav, naročito kada se uporedi sa psom koji je jeo istu tu salmonelom zaraženu hranu ali je savršeno zdrav i nije zaražen. Prvi pas ima oslabljen imuni sistem i zato je bakterija postala problem.

Ja verujem da su granule, ne sirovo meso, uzrok problema sa bakterijama. Granule u crevima pasa ne samo da iritiraju sluzokožu creva već ujedno stvaraju savršeno, toplo i vlažno stanište sa mnogo nesvarenog šećera i skrob što je odlična hrana za bakterije. To je razlog zašto na hiljade životinja pati od stanja koje se naziva „  Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth „ (SIBO). Sveže mesnate kosti, međutim, stvaraju veoma negostoljubivo okruženje za bakterije, zato što su sveže meso i kosti lako svarljive namirnice i  ne sadrže ugljenje hidrate, skrob ili šećer da hrane bakterije.

Šta je sa ishranom kuvanim namirnicama ?

Postoji nekoliko problema koji nastaju zbog kuvane hrane.  Tom Lonsdale se ovim probleimam bavi u poglavlju broj 4 svoje knjige, koju toplo preporučujem svima „ RAW meat bones.“
U redu, da se osvrenemo na efkte toplote. Ako spalite svoj prst, šta se dešava ? Koža i tkivo odumire. Prekomerna toplota uništava hranu i hraniljive materije. Kuvani proteini mogu se menjati do tačke kada izazivaju alergijske reakcije, dok sirovi proteini to ne rade.
Na prvom mestu, čin kuvanja menja proteine, vitamine, masti i minerale u hrani. Ove promene mogu neke hranljive materije napraviti manje ili više dostupnim. Kuvanje može izmeniti masti do tačke kada one postaju otrovne ili kancerogene. 
Ako životinja ima „alergiju“ na piletinu ili govedinu, to može vrlo često biti kuvana piletina ili govedina, ne sirova.

Kuvanje dovodi do denaturacije proteina. Prema enciklopediji Britanika, denaturacija je modifikacija molekularne strukture proteina od strane toplote, kiseline ili ultraljubičastog zračenja koje uništava ili umanjuje njegove orginalne osobine i biološku vrednost.
Denaturacija menja proteine i čini ih neupotrebljivim ili manje upotrebljivim. Prema enciklopediji Britanika, molekuli proteina nisu otporni na toplotu. Za razliku od jednostavnih organskih molekula, fizičke i hemijske osobine proteina se značajno menjaju ako se supstanca samo prokuva u vodi.
Dalje: svi subjekti sposobni da izazovu denaturaciju su u stanju da prekinu sekundarne veze koji lance drže na mestu. Jednom kad se ove slabe veze prekinu, molekuli je lišen biološke funkcije.
Opet, prema enciklopediji Britanika najznačajniji efekat proteinske denaturacije jeste gubitak biološke funkcije. Na primer, enzimi gube svoju katalitičku moć i hemoglobin gubi sposobnost da transportuje kiseonik. Promene koje prate denaturaciju su se pokazale kao posledica unistavanja odredjenog sablona u kome se lanci amino kiselina pretvaraju u prirodni protein. U Britanici postoji naznaka da “kuvanje unistava protein i cini ga prakticno neupotrebljivim.”

Postoje dva načina za denaturaciju proteina: hemijski koristeći digestivne enzime ili kroz korišćenje toplote. Preko toplote, telo nema sposobnost da iskoristi oštećene komponente proteina (amino kiseline) i ponovo ih obnovi u održivi proteinski molekul.
Neki fiziolozi tvrde da je kuvanje i varenje gotovo isto: da je kuvanje oblik predvarenja gde se toplota koristi da hidrolizuje hranljive sastojke  koji bi inače bili hidrolizovani na telesnoj temperaturi  putem varenja. Ovo zbog izloženosti ogromnoj toploti tokom kuvanja, denaturacija molekula proteina prolazi tačku njihove biaktivnosti. Međutim, temperatura tela je previše niska da bi tako negativno uticala na molekule proteina. Kada su proteini izloženi visokim temperaturama tokom kuvanja, enzimske otporne veze se formiraju između lanaca amino kiseline. Telo ne može razdvojiti ove amino kiseline. Ono što telo ne može da koristi, mora eliminisati. Kuvani proteini postaju izvor toksičnosti : mrtav organski otpadni materijal koji postupa i elaborira prema bakterijskoj flori.

Kada se hrana bogata proteinima jede sirova, telo maksimalno iskorišćava sve amino kiseline bez pratećih toksina iz kuvane hrane.
Trebalo bi da bude dobro razumljivo i prepoznatljivo u naučnoj literaturi da toplota razbija vitamine, amino kiseline i proizvodi neželjene prelazne veze u proteinima, posebno u mesu.
Na oko 43 °C dve od osam esencijalnih masnih kiselina, lizin i triptofan, su uništene. Kada se hrana kuva na više od 47  °C tri minuta ili duže, započinju razne štetne promene, i tako sto su vece temperature is to je duze vreme na kojima se kuva to se progresivno izaziva sve vece povecanje nutritivne stete kao sto su:
- zgrušavanje proteina
- zbog visoke temperature dolazi do denaturacije molekularne strakture proteina, što dovodi do  nedostatka nekih esencijalnih masnih kiselina
- karamelizacija ugljenih hidrata
- prekomerno zagrevanje masti generiše brojne kancerogene supstance uključujući akrloein, ugljovodonike i benzopirene (jedan od najmoćnih poznatih izazivača raka).
- prirodna vlakna se raspadaju, celuloza kompletno menja svoj prirodno stanje i gubi sposobnost čišćenja probavnog kanala.
- 30 do 50% vitamina i minerala biva uništeno
- 100% enzima biva oštećeno, sto dovodi do iscrpljenja unutrasnjih enzima za sta se crpi energija potreba za odrzavanje i reprodukciju tkiva i sistema organa, cime se skracuje zivotni vek.

Dr. Kouchakoff iz Švajcarske je sproveo preko 300 detaljnih eksperimenata koju ističu patogenu prirodu kuvanih i obrađenih namirnica. Hrana koja je zagrejana na temperaturi od samo 48 °C do 88 °C (ovaj opeg više spada pod zagrevanje nego kuvanje, ali opet uništava sve enzime), izaziva serumsku leukocitozu u telu.

Drugo, kuvana hrana ne poseduje prednosti koje ima RAW hrana. Kuvana hrana poseduje manjak vitamina, minerala i enzima, zato što sam čin kuvanja uništava ili menja većinu njih. Ovo smanjuje bioraspoloživost ovih vrednih hemikalija i čini ih manje dostupnim. To je razlog zbog koga se ove stvari moraju naknadno dodavati u kuvanu i obrađenu industrijsku hranu. I zato veliki broj razlicitih suplemenata i nepozeljnih supstanci mora biti dodat u industrijsku hranu!
Vitamini i minerali mogu biti dodati naknadno u kuvanu hranu, ali pronalaženje odgovarajuće ravnoteže je izuzetno teško. Veštački vitamini i minerali nemaju uvek istu trodimenzionlanu strukturu kao prirodni vitamini i minerali, što znači da je njihova efikasnot i iskoristljivost u telu znatno smanjena. To se kompenzuje prekomernom suplementacijom, što rezultira dodatnom upotrebom neophodnih vitamina i minerala. Na primer, višak neorganskog kalcijuma smanjuje dostupnost gvožđa, bakra, joda i cinka. (Lonsdale, T. 2001. Raw Meaty Bones. pg 88).

Ako vi hranite kuvanom, kući spremanom hranom, kako možete biti sigurni da su potrebe vaših ljubimaca zadovoljene kada znamo da sam čin kuvanja uništava veći deo onog što je korisno za vaše ljubimce ?  U suštini, kada kuvate hranu za svoje pse vi nagađate koji vitamini i minerali su uništeni, koji su možda uništeni (što znači da bi morali da znate koliko ih je bilo u hrani na prvom mestu) i koliko suplemenata je vašem psu potrebno. Tada nailazite na još jedan problem: niko stvarno ne zna šta je našim psima zaista potrebno i korisno u smislu vitamina i minerala. Mi samo znamo koji iznosi su previše veliki, a koji su previše mali u periodu od 6 meseci, ne u periodu od nekoliko godina. Pored toga, kako možemo biti sigurni da su istraživači otkrili sve hranljive materije neophodne vašim ljubimcima ? To je još uvek proces koji traje (kao što Eukanuba dodaje DHA u svoju hranu, prirodni izvor DHA je sirov plen, tako da svaki pas i mesožder koji jede sirov plen unosi u sebe odgovarajuću količinu DHA), a pošto kuvanje uništava minerale, vitamine i enzime, istraživačima možda promiče neka veoma važna hranljiva materija. Hranjenje kuvanom hranom takođe dovodi do toga da psi “propuštaju” te nepoznate hranljive materije, kojima sirova obiluje u odgovarajućoj količini.
Ljudi pokušavaju da kompenzuju nedostatak vitamina i minerala bez dodavanja suplemenata. Umesto toga, oni jednostavno dodaju povrće, žitarice, mlečne proizvode u ishranu svojih mesoždera. Složeni recepti su razvijeni da bi kreirali širok spektar hrane za pse (i mačke) koja mora biti kuvana, parena, blendirana itd. A sve da bi pas dobio pravilnu ishranu. Naši mesožderi još jednom su prisiljeni da jedu hranu za omnivore a sve iz razloga da bi im pomogli da dobiju sve neophodne hranljive materije koje oni inače jednostavno mogu dobiti ako se hrane raznim vrstama sirovih mesnatih kostiju i organima životinja. Jednostavnost i savršenstvo su zamenjeni za složenost i nesavršenstvo. RAW ishrana, mađutim, ima savršenu ravnotežu vitamina i minerala ako hranimo pse ishranom baziranom na celom plenu (npr. ceo zec). (Lonsdale, T. 2001. Raw Meaty Bones. Chapter 4.)
RAW ili sirova hrana tkođe poseduje nepromenljive proteine i hranljive materije, a bioraspoloživost ovih hranljivih materija je velika. Sirova hrana, posebno celi trupovi i mesnate kosti obezbeđuju neophodno čišćenje zuba što je nemoguće kod bilo kog kuvanog obroka. Paradontopatija koja izaiziva pojavu bakterija se uklanja svakim raw obrokom, za razliku od kuvane hrane kod koje bakterije ostaju prisutne i koje kasnije izazivaju razne tegobe koje su rezultat ishrane kuvanim povrcem, mesom i zitaricama.

Prema udzbeniku “Nutritional Value of Food Processing”, 3. izdanje koje je napisano za prehrambene hemičare u prehrambenoj industriji: promene koje se dešavaju u toku prerade rezultiraju gubitkom ili uništavanjem hranljivih materija. Toplotna obrada ima stetan efekat na hranljive materije sa obzirom da takvom obradom uvek dolazi do degradacije nutrijenata.

Molekuli proteina pod idealnim uslovima ishrane i probave se dele na amino kiselina od strane enzima. Svaki molekul proteina u telu se sintetiše od strane ovih amino kiselina. Protein koji se unosi u telo se NE iskoriscava kao protein, vec se prvo razlaze na svoje sastavne aminokiseline pa TEK onda koristi za izgradnju proteinskih molekula koji su potrebni telu.

Postoji 23 razlicite amino kiseline. One se zajedno povezuju u razlicite kombinacije ekstremno dugackih lanaca kako bi kreirali proteinske molekule. U skoli nam je receno da je to kao kad bi individualni automobile formirali voz. Amino grupa daje svakoj amino kiselini specificne karateristike koje je identifikuju i koje se razlikuju od svake druge. Prekomerna toplota ubija amino grupu. Bez amino grupe amino kiseline ostaju neupotrebljive i postaju toksicne.

Ja sam cesto bio optuzivan zbog preporucivanja sirove ishrane kao najbolje vrste ishrane za nase mesozdere, ali posle dugog istrazivanja i dugogodisnjeg hranjenja mojih pasa ovakvom ishranom, ne mogu da ne verujem u to da nasi psi nisu stvoreni za sirovu ishranu i da kada bi se svi karnivori tako hranili ne bi bili zdraviji i ziveli duze. Oni bi napredovali! Ne samo prezivljavali...

Izvor: http://www.thewholedog.org/artcarnivores.html

Van mreže AA

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« Odgovor #8 poslato: 30 April, 2012, 13:07:16 »
Optimum Pet Nutrition
"Happy Dogs Are Healthy Dogs #2"


Let's take a fresh look at optimum diets for our pets

What we put into the bodies of our dogs (or cats or any pet for that matter) directly affects their health. Without proper nutrition, even the most genetically sound animals will not reach their full potential and could also have health problems as a result. What you feed your dog or cat or bird is probably one of THE most important decision you'll make for your pet.

Mary L. Wulff-Tilford author of All You Ever Wanted To Know About Herbs For Pets Has this to say:

"The food your animal eats should provide all of the nutritional components which are necessary for all organs and systems of a healthy body to perform in harmonious unison. A properly functioning body does an amazing job at preventing disease and healing itself, and to do this it requires the energies and nutrients of a well-balanced diet. In terms of finding the proper diet for our companions, this means learning to look beyond our own needs, opinions, and agendas to address the natural needs of the animals that we caretake. The business of selling pet food at times seems to be focused more on what appeals to animal guardians than on the dietary needs of pets. The market success of most commercial foods is judged by how convenient it is, and how good it looks, smells, feels, or even tastes to pet owners."

I believe that the importance of proper nutrition cannot be overstated. Without proper nutrition all of the other efforts at achieving and maintaining good health can be only partially successful at best. Without proper nutrition there is much greater need for medical intervention, simply to assist the body in dealing with things the immune system should be capable of dealing with on its own.

Without proper nutrition, every virus, every allergen, every parasite, every bacterium, and every fungus are made exponentially more pervasive, powerful, and dangerous. Not, of course, because they are strengthened in any way, but because the body's ability to fight them off is dramatically decreased. The immune system is the natural armor against all these things, the dog's natural God designed defences are dependent on proper nutrition to maintain adequate protection against any invasion. With proper (species appropriate) nutrition there is a marked decrease in the need for things like antibiotics, vaccines, and parasiticides.

The natural reality is this:

Some how, some where we have been lead to belive that what is good for us to eat is good for pets, that our pets are just humans in fuzzy suits.WRONG This is NOT true, Dogs are carnivores and we are Omnivores. What is good for our animals to eat may not be very appealing to us, but if we really want to provide them with the nutrition they truly need, we must learn to look beyond standards of human acceptance to consider what our pets might eat if we weren't around. What do thier cousins eat in the wild????

Dogs are Carnivores, this is a biological fact. Look into your dog's mouth. Those huge impressive teeth (or tiny needle sharp teeth) are designed for grabbing, ripping, tearing, shredding, and shearing meat (Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pg 258.).

They are not equipped with large flat molars for grinding up plant matter. Their molars are pointed and situated in a scissors bite (along with the rest of their teeth) that powerfully disposes of meat, bone, and hide. Carnivores are equipped with a peculiar set of teeth that includes the presence of carnassial teeth: the fourth upper premolar and first lower molar. Contrast this with your own teeth or the teeth of a black bear. A black bear is a true omnivore, as are we. We have nice, large, flat molars that can grind up veggies. Black bears, while having impressive canine teeth, also have large flat molars in the back of their mouth to assist in grinding up plant matter. Dogs and most canids lack these kinds of molars. Why? Because they don't eat plant matter. Teeth are highly specialized and are structured specifically for the diet the animal eats, and the difference between a bear's teeth and a dog's teeth (both species are in Order Carnivora) demonstrates how this can be (Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pgs 260.).

Dogs have a highly elastic stomach designed to hold large quantities of meat, bone, organs, and hide. Their stomachs are simple, with an undeveloped caecum (Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pg 260.). They have a relatively short foregut and a short, smooth, unsacculated colon. This means food passes through quickly. Vegetable and plant matter, however, needs time to sit and ferment. This equates to longer, sacculated colons, larger and longer small intestines, and occasionally the presence of a caecum. Dogs have none of these, but have the shorter foregut and hindgut consistent with carnivorous animals

Dogs do not produce the necessary enzymes (amylase, for example) to deal with the starch, cellulose, and carbohydrates in plant matter since they are carnivorous animals designed to eat meat and bone. Feeding dogs as though they were omnivores taxes the pancreas and places extra strain on it, as it must work harder for the dog to digest the starchy, carbohydrate- filled food. Nor do dogs have the friendly bacteria that break down cellulose and starch for them. As a result, most of the nutrients contained in plant matter--even preprocessed plant matter--are simply unavailable to dogs. This is why dog food manufacturers have to add such high amounts of synthetic vitamins and minerals (the fact that cooking destroys all the vitamins and minerals and thus creates the need for supplementation aside) to their dog foods. If a dog can only digest 30% or less of its grain-based food, then it will only be receiving 30% or less of the vitamins and minerals it needs. To compensate for this, the manufacturer must add a higher concentration of vitamins and minerals than the dog actually needs.

So, with this knowledge of our dogs being carnivores, we need to have all dietary decisions for them conform to this knowledge if they are to result in proper, appropriate, nutrition. This is not something we can change to suit our own likes, needs and beliefs if we truly want healthy dogs.

Processed foods, drugs, the chemical cleaners we use in and around our homes, as well as over vaccination have seriously depleted the natural vitality and immune systems of our pets over the years.

A lack of RAW red meat in an carnivorious pet's diet can lead to serious health problems. Our dogs (and cats) require the enzymes,amino acids and other nutrients in the raw meat (bones and organs too) in order to stay healthy. Many skin and coat problems are a direct result of a lack ofraw animal fat in the diet - fat which humans often believe is bad for their pet. (Cooked animal fat IS bad, not so with raw fat). Animals need at least 30% raw fat, and their systems are not designed to handle cooked meat or cooked fat.

Were you aware that restaurant grease has become a major component of feed-grade animal fat over the last 25 years. Usually held in 50-gallon drums for weeks or months in extreme temperatures, this grease is usually kept outside with no regard for its safety or further use. The rancid grease is then picked up by fat blenders who mix the animal and vegetable fats together, stabilize them with powerful synthetic antioxidants to prevent further spoilage, and then sell the blended products to pet food companies. Rancid, heavily preserved fats are extremely difficult to digest and can lead to a host of animal health problems, including digestive upsets, diarrhea, gas, and bad breath.

Come on Folks, in the wild, a cougar or wolf does not barbecue, grill or smoke its prey. It definitely does not walk to the local supermarket to buy dry food either. Yet, most of us pet owners recoil at the thought of feeding raw meat to their dog or cat, concerned about bacteria or parasites.

Dog and cat digestive systems have been designed by the Creator, to consume a raw diet, and they can and do well tolerate foods containing a wide range of naturally occurring bacteria that we humans can not.

As carnivores, the digestive systems again are much different then ours, theirs are short, acidic, and handle bacteria well. This is why they are not susceptible to salmonella, parasites, or e-coli from tainted meat as humans are. Humans have very long digestive tracks which allow food to 'linger' for 24 hours or more, thus allowing more time for parasites to get into their bloodstreams.

In nature animals know to seek out those foods that satisfy their nutritional needs. For example; free roaming wolves hunt grazing animals whenever possible. They will eat muscle or bone, the liver, pancreas and intestines - in other words, they are gorging on enzyme- laden tissues.

Wolf pups are weaned and maintained on regurgitated food, also heavily laced with digestive enzymes. Unless we are able to provide a raw meat and bone diet similar to what the wolf enjoys in the wild, adding adigestive enzyme and probiotic supplement to each meal IS essential for optimum digestion and overall good health. Since our pet foods today are heat processed, enzyme concentration is not only significantly reduced but in most all cases is totally destroyed. For this reason, adding digestive enzymes and probiotics to your pet's food will enhance absorption of any nutrients available to them.

William Pollak D.V.M. - "Malnutrition and the toxic condition of the animal fed commercial diets can result in the inability to digest and assimilate basic food components of the fresher, more wholesome type such as raw food. “

I personally, don't get it! Can some one tell me how it is that we have the intelligence and understanding to feed and nourish ourselves and our growing children, but appear to be too stupid to formulate a proper, nourishing diet for our dogs?

The "pet food" industry would have us believe that each meal must be complete and balanced. According to whos diet/idea? This is simply not true! Granted, complete and balanced nutrition is necessary. However, this balance can be and ideally should be achieved over a period of days, even weeks as a wild canid's diet is. Most natural canine nutritionists agree that it is preferable to use the “balance over time” approach.

The "dog food" industry spends millions of dollars convincing us and "brain washing" us that variety is bad for our dogs, and that they should eat the same thing at every meal, every day. They show us pictures of whole grains, fruits, vegetables and meat that look very appitizing to us humans! The reason for telling us this and showing us these pictures is only marketing so that we will keep buying their product. Their products are formulated in such a way as to make changing from one brand to another hard on our dogs' digestive system and contains ingredients our dogs and cats were NEVER designed to be able to digest in the first place. However, the same is not true for changing from one kind of RMBs (Raw Meaty Bone) to another.

We know by now (or at least we should) just how our health would deteriorate if we ate the same thing, particularly a highly processed food like breakfast cereal for example, for every meal every day of our lives. Yet this is what we are doing feeding this processed food to our pets. It is only common sense.

When feeding our dogs a species appropriate diet, variety is desirable, even important to the maintenance of optimum health. Feeding raw meaty chicken bones one day and raw beef or lamb ribs the next with a few organ meats thrown in every other day or so will not cause stomach upset the way switching from one brand of kibble to another will. So obviously it isn’t variety that is bad for our dogs, rather, it is the processed "dog food" that is bad.

There are those who would try to convince you that the dog has evolved, or rather that we have evolved the dog, into some human creation capable of digesting and thriving on, even requiring, a highly processed (cooked) diet consisting primarily of grains. THIS IS ABSURD! Even if it were possible to effect such an evolutionary change it would take hundreds of thousands of years not the very few, 60 to 70, that we've been feeding our dogs a processed dog food kind of diet. Even if one uses the entire period of domestication of the dog it doesn't approach the great period of time required to accomplish that kind of evolutionary change in an organism as complex as the domestic dog. At best we have forced our dogs to ADAPT to this inappropriate, unnatural diet.

The outside of our pet's bodies may not look anything like the wolf we see on the Nature Shows on TV but if you were to lie a wolf and your cute little Yorkie side by side and be able to see inside their bodies you would see the same kind of teeth, the same enzymes (or lack there of) in their saliva, the same small stomach with the same extremely strong stomach acids, the same short intestines, etc. Identical only may different in size. Even an expert has a very difficult time telling apart the DNA from the wolf your little house pet.

For all the changes we've made in the domestic dog they remain relatively unchanged in every way but appearance and temperament.

In spite of the tons of grain, beet pulp, cellulose, animal byproducts, preservatives, and artificial nutrients that we have poured into our dogs in the form of kibble "dog food" over the last 60 or so years, dogs, all dogs, remain carnivores and need (as well as deserve) optimum nutrition![/size]


Copyright © 2003 -2008 This article is the sole property of Dr Jeanette (Jeannie) Thomason and The Whole Dog. It cannot be reproduced in any form whatsoever without the expressed written consent of the author.

Van mreže AA

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Odg: Ishrana celim plenom - Prey model RAW
« Odgovor #9 poslato: 30 April, 2012, 13:09:04 »
sa foruma: http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/6023-normal-pmr-faq.html

It is pretty typical for the raw feeding section to be full of "is it normal?" threads, so I thought I'd go ahead, and list out some things that while not typical on kibble, are not uncommon in a raw diet- especially for a dog newly transitioned. These are questions that very frequently pop up on DFC, as well as some other forums and lists. Stools.

Is it normal for my dog to have runny stools?
Yes, and it indicates that you need to feed more bone for that time, and strip the chicken of all skin, fat, and organs. It can also be a good indicator that you are feeding too much, or moving too fast with introducing new proteins. Cut portions down, up the bone, proceed slowly.

Is it normal for my dog's stools to be crumbly?

Yes, and it indicates you are feeding too much bone, and not enough muscle meat.

Is it normal for my dog's stools to be yellow?

Yellow stools are pretty typical for dogs eating all or mostly Chicken.

Is it normal for my dog's stools to be dark and like tar?

Dark or tar-like stools indicate that you are feeding too much organ meats at a time, and you need to cut the amount down. Sometimes darker, looser stools happen after boneless red meat meals, and that means you shouldn't feed quite as much boneless at a time. It's a classic sign of moving too fast.
Darker colored stools that are solid are of no significance, unless there's a decent amount of blood present.

Is it normal to see shards of bone in my dog's stools?

For some dogs, it takes a little more time for their bodies to re-learn to digest the denser parts of bone. In the beginning, you may see small fragments of bone in the stools. DO not worry about it. The digestive tract is far more durable than what you may thing. In time,your dog's body will be accustomed to the raw bones, and you won't see this anymore.
You may see them again when adding in more dense bones, like beef or pork bones, and just like with chicken bones, their bodies will learn to digest them.

Is it normal for my dog's stools to be very small?

Yes! This is one of the many endless benefits to a raw diet! Your dog's stools will be much smaller and firmer on a PMR diet than on any other diet. Small stools do not mean your dog is constipated! If your dog is constipated, they won't poo at all.

Is it normal for my dog's stools to turn white and crumbly?

Yes. In a couple day's time, your dog's stools, if left untouched outside, will dry up, turn white and crumbly, and turn to dust. Enjoy not having to do poo duty!

Vomit and Regurgitation

Is it normal for my dog to regurgitate right after eating?
Yes, generally it means they didn't chew the food enough, and their bodies told them to bring it back up, and try again. *Some puppies may even be dramatic and yelp and cry right before/ during/ after regurgitation* Most dogs will willingly re-eat the food. Let them.

Is it normal for my dog to vomit yellow bile between meals?
Affectionately known as the "hunger pukes" sometimes dogs with an empty stomach will vomit bile. Raw digests so much faster than kibble, so most dogs fed kibble are used to having residual "gunk" sitting in their bellies from their last meal long after it's been eaten. A raw fed dog will digest and utilize their food much faster. You can feed more meals per day, which will remedy the hunger pukes, but in time their bodies will become accustomed to not having a constantly engorged belly. Also, feeding at random times of the day can help a great deal as well.

Is it normal for my dog to vomit bone chunks?
Dogs who are still getting used to eating bones may bring back up chunks of bone. It is their bodies way of telling you they can not quite digest it, and is a good sign your dog might need a slower transition. As their digestive juices work to the best of their ability, you will see less and less of this, but be aware you may need to go through this as bones of differing density are introduced.
Once a dog has been introduced to bones of all APPROPRIATE densities and is accustomed to their raw diet, you won't see this anymore.

Body Condition and Health

Is it normal to see poor side effects of a raw diet?
Some people while in the transition phase will see things like increased dandruff, eye goop, slight hair loss, etc. These are generally indicators that the built up toxins and whatnot from a previously sub par diet are coming out. You may see a slight flare up in existing problems, and then they get much better.

Is it normal for my dog's gums to bleed on a PMR diet?
Just like when people with poor gum health chew on crunchy things, or brush their teeth and see blood, dogs with poor oral health may experience bleeding of the gums at first. You are in luck, the raw diet will greatly improve the overall condition of your dogs gums and teeth!!
PMR can improve any dog's teeth and gums, but do not have entirely unrealistic expectations. For some, the plaque buildup and periodontal disease is so advanced, a full dental cleaning by a vet is necessary, to start with a clean slate, and then a raw diet will maintain the clean teeth and gums.

Is it easier to maintain a healthy body weight on a raw diet?

YES! With raw, you know exactly what you're giving your dog or cat, and that it is highly digestible. For overweight pets, just feel less. It's that simple! For underweight dogs, feed more. If you are unsure of how much to start with, calculate what 2.5 percent of your dog's ideal adult body weight is, and go from there. Adjust accordingly.
Dog's ideal weight x .025= good starting amount

Introducing New Proteins

What can I start a raw diet with?
Chicken! You'll want to start your dog off with bone inclusive chicken for the first week. Backs are a popular choice, but quarters are a good alternative if backs are not available. Wings and Chicken Necks are good for smaller dogs.

How do I know when it's ok to introduce something new?

DO not move forward with adding anything new until your dog has had at LEAST 3 days in a row of firm, solid stools.
I recommend adding new protein sources in much smaller amounts than a typical meal, and always with bone. If you know your dog is more sensitive, it's always a good idea to strip skin and fat to start.

How Often I introduce new foods?
I don't recommend adding more than one new food in a week's time. SO for two weeks, feed just chicken. Week three, add a meal of bone in turkey, week four, add a meal of bone in pork, and so on. Moving faster might be ok for some dogs, but rather safe than sorry to make your transition as smooth as possible.

What do I feed after chicken?
It is recommended after chicken, to move onto bone-inclusive Turkey. Then onto pork. Then onto gutted fish (whole contain too much other stuff at this point, but if your dog has a iron gut, go ahead and try it out!) and beef, and other richer red meats.
There aren't many edible bones for things like beef and venison, so I generally introduce them as "half" meals, with the other half being something very bone heavy, like turkey neck, and work my way up to less bone.

When do I introduce organ meats?

Don't even think about organ meats for at least 6 weeks or so, generally even a bit longer.
You can start giving them only when your dog has been introduced to a variety of proteins (at least the ones you intend to feed regularly) and is doing well with meals that are not bone heavy. At that point, add them in very SMALL amounts. Start with a quarter-sized sliver of liver. Just as with introducing other things, only proceed to add more if your dog is first handling the small amount fine. Be on the lookout for tar-poo.

What Not to Feed- or to feed with Caution

Are there any parts of an animal I should not feed?
Weight-bearing bones of large animals, such as femurs and knuckles from cows, buffalo, etc. should not be given, especially to large "aggressive chewers." The reason being: these bones are designed to carry hundreds, if not thousands of pounds and are therefore much more dense than your dog's teeth. This proposed a risk of cracking, chipping, or downright breaking off a tooth. Why I’ll NEVER give a dog a marrow or knuckle bone | Prey Model Raw
There are plenty of people who argue that they've given these bones for years without having any bad things happen. To this argument I will say: There is never a problem- until there's a problem.

Are there any foods that require special preparation?
Wild caught salmon from the Pacific Northwest can carry a parasite that can effect dogs, and should be frozen for a few weeks before feeding. Most salmon is farmed, and canned salmon is no issue whatsoever.
Also, bear and wild boar can carry a form of trichinosis. I suggest further researching the topic and making a decision for yourself.

What about "enhanced meats"?
Quite a lot of the meat on the market, particularly poultry, is enhanced with up to 10% saline solution. Non enhanced meats are strongly preferred. That being said, most enhanced meats are more affordable, and if that's all you can do- you are STILL leaps and bounds ahead of ANY commercially diet.. Stray away from enhanced meats as much as possible, but dont sweat the occasional enhanced meal. You can try soaking them to get some of the solution out.
If your dog (or cat, or ferret) is having a tough time making the transition, try using un enhanced chicken and you may have better luck.
Of course you want all the meats you feed to be as close to their natural state as possible.

Van mreže Katarina

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Odg: Ishrana celim plenom - Prey model RAW
« Odgovor #10 poslato: 03 Jun, 2012, 00:19:41 »


Slika u punoj veličini: http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/461037_469394156407856_2040613395_o.jpg

Vuk (Shara's Ognjen Vuk), 7 godina star šarplaninac, ceo život hranjen celim zečevima, uz dodatak granula formulisanih za taj način ishrane. Vlasnik ovog psa je ranijih godina, pored pasa, imao vuka i mešance vukova i pasa ("rescue" varijanta) koje je na sličan način hranio. Sada pored Vuka ima još dva psa, hranjenih koliko sam razumela na isti način, a oba imaju po skoro 20 godina.
Da li je sve to do ishrane ili ne, ne znam, samo mi je bilo zanimljivo da prenesem.  :)

Van mreže Поп

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Odg: Ishrana celim plenom - Prey model RAW
« Odgovor #11 poslato: 06 Jun, 2012, 00:00:03 »
uz dodatak granula formulisanih za taj način ishrane

Kakve su to granule ?
Prvi put čujem za tako nešto, a možda sam i čuo ali nisam imao pojma da je to u pitanju  :D

Van mreže Katarina

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Odg: Ishrana celim plenom - Prey model RAW
« Odgovor #12 poslato: 07 Jun, 2012, 00:56:59 »
Neću da te lažem, ali ne znam kako se zovu. Ne isključujem mogućnost da sam pogrešno razumela čoveka, ali 99% sam sigurna da su u pitanju specijalne granule. Svakako ću ga pitati, pa ću i dopisati ovde.
Sećam se samo da je do pre nekoliko godina psima u ishranu dodavao ove granule: http://www.martinsk9formula.com/

Van mreže AA

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Odg: Ishrana celim plenom - Prey model RAW
« Odgovor #13 poslato: 07 Jun, 2012, 11:21:17 »
cek... sama filozofija prey modela je totalno suprotna od filozofije granula. poenta prey modela je da pas jede kao u prirodi, cele zivotinje i nista vise. osnova te filozofije je anatomija psa, zubalo carnivora koje je slozeno za kidanje i drobljenje velikih komada mesa, tako da granula tu ne moze da opstane.

nemam vremena da detaljno sad gledam sajt, ali vidim da oni proizvode granule
http://www.martinsk9formula.com/store/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=2
koje su bas to-klasicna granula

ali prodaju i meso (u usa bas nema mesara  u kojima visi junad sa plafona kao ovde pa su obicno ograniceni na pakovano meso u supermarketima) i to je ono sto ima veze sa prey modelom.

moguce da tvoj prijatelj nije najbolje skapirao ili ti njega nisi najbolje skapirala.
granule ne mogu da imaju veze sa prey modelom jer su sastojci dehidrirani (bilo da su pre toga kuvani ili peceni).

i totw, orijen i slicni grain free dehidrati se furaju na  tu prirodnu filozofiju, ali nemaju veze ni sa raw ni sa prey modelom  prehrane. cim nema svezeg mesa-to je kibble... preradjena mesavina raznih sastojaka

Van mreže Katarina

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Odg: Ishrana celim plenom - Prey model RAW
« Odgovor #14 poslato: 08 Jun, 2012, 01:51:03 »
Napisah u komentaru iznad, čovek čiji je pas sa fotogradije je granule te 'marke' pre nekoliko godina dodavao psima u hranu, pored celih zečeva. Nakon toga je prešao na neke drugačije formulisane, tako da budu dodatak ishrani.
Iskreno, meni je bilo zanimljivo kako pas dobro izgleda na toj hrani. I uvek je izgledao dobro (pratim ga od 2.-3. godine). Ali on nije hranjen "prey model" filozofijom...on je hranjen onako kako je njegov vlasnik smatrao da je najbolje za njega, ali i za druge njegove pse. Dovoljno je napomenuti da je barem njegovih 5 pasa živelo oko 20 godina (!!!), a svi su bili usvojeni, većina u već odraslom dobu.

Ja sam lično protiv svake vrste esktremizma. Lepe su priče kako su psi slični vukovima, kako treba da jedu živo meso i kosti, kako su oni mesojedi. I to sve stoji! Ali psi nisu vukovi, niti su divlje kanide. Psi ne love da bi se prehranili - prestali su to da rade onog trenutka kada su prišli čoveku pre 40ak hiljada godina. Baš zato su ti pra-vuci-psi-štagod i prišli čoveku, jer je bilo lakše kupiti ostatke njihove hrane, nego goniti i loviti plen. Psi su zapravo evolutivna posledica postojanja ljudskih otpadaka. Što ne isključuje činjenicu da psi mogu, a ponekad i love sitne glodare da bi se prehranili, i to takođe naravno ne znači da pse treba hraniti otpatcima. Ali se ne treba ni zanositi idejom da je pas samo malo drugačije ofarban i spakovan digestivni trakt vuka. Psi iako građom jesu mesojedi, uskraćeno im je mnogo toga što bi im omogućilo efikasan samostalan lov, a što imaju vukovi. Psi su manje glave u odnosu telo i generalno manje snage, poređeno sa vukom istih gabarita. Pseći zubi su manji, vilica slabija, mozak je manji, manje su i inteligentni, a takođe i uče na drugačiji način nego vukovi, itd. Ali ono što psima najviše nedostaje u toj teoriji 'prirodne ishrane' je instinkt za kidanjem ulovljenog plena. Primera radi, sećate se samo svih onih novinskih članaka o lutalicama koji su davili ovce...ja se ne sećam da je ijedna ovca bila glodana, a kamo li pojedena. Evo ja sad da stavim jednog (jadnog malog mrtvog) zeku pred Mo, ona bi pogledala njega, pogledala mene, njušnula i sela sa strane. Ne bi znala šta sa njim da radi - jer psi moraju da nauče kako da dođu do mesa; prosto nemaju taj instinkt. Kada se sve sabere i oduzme, ta priča kako je pas stvoren samo i isključivo za celog zeku/koku je pomalo šuplja.

Da me neko ne razume pogrešno, meni je ova ideja o načinu hranjenja takođe zanimljiva, i svakako bih da imam mogućnosti, pokušala da svog psa hranim i celim životinjama. Sve se da naučiti i probati. To ne može da bude loše za psa, baš naprotiv. No jednolična ishrana, za životinju stvorenu za "šareniš", nikako ne može biti dobra, bilo da je to meso, granule ili ceo 'plen'.
Uostalom, zato ovaj forum i postoji, da bi saznali kako i zašto psi treba da klopaju svašta nešto lepo.  sm afro